Or, Subtitled: Precious Transcripts of Old Bible Registers, Tucked Away in Family Bibles
This posting is another interruption in the series I’m currently doing about the children of Thomas Brooks (1775-1838) and wife Sarah Whitlock of Wythe County, Virginia, Wayne County, Kentucky, and Morgan County, Alabama. I’ve promised you a continuation of my discussion of the family of Thomas and Sarah’s son Thomas Whitlock Brooks (1805-1879). I’ll soon be posting information about Thomas W. Brooks’s children by his wives Nancy Gillespie and Nancy Westfall.
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BEGATS AND BEQUEATHALS 
This is new information to me and a of great importance. Thank you for posting it.
I’ve found one Geni profile from 2017 that has the marriage of Patrick Rice and Elizabeth Decou listed but I don’t know what their original sourcing was.
There is a mess with his son, John Rice. — Every online lineage I’ve seen has Patrick’s first son as “John Rice Sr” and John Rice sr’s son being “John Rice Jr” born ca 1745 – died 1802. He was the founder of Rice’s Landing, PA.
If this transcription is accurate obviously these online lineages are incorrect and something needs to be made of this extra “John Rice Sr.” — Whatever the case, according to Pastor John Corbly researchers John Rice Sr, “Jr” and early Rices were neighbors of parishioners of Pastor John Corbly, an oft persecuted early Baptist minister, explorer, and pioneer church builder who was jailed multiple times. – He deeded his land to “John Rice Sr” and story has it after Corbly’s wife died the “John Rice Sr” family fostered Corby’s family while he was traveling the Frontier. When he made it back, he deeded his land. — A lot of Rice’s show up with Corbly in the right times and places and follow his migration to Louisville and Jefferson County, KY. Which is where my EKA line shows up.
Thanks again!
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Thank you for this response. Yes, such valuable material, and I agree that there has been much confusion about Patrick Rice’s son John. You probably know much more about the Rice family than I do. My primary goal in researching it has been to figure out the connection to the Brooks family, which obviously goes beyond the marriage of Elizabeth Brooks to Patrick Rice’s son George Rice. The two families lived near each other in Frederick County, show up in deeds and wills of each other, and had mutual ties to the Hollingsworths. This has made me want to know more about the Rices, and especially where Patrick Rice came from before he was in Frederick County.
If he was an Irish immigrant directly to Frederick County, as many researchers have thought, then I wonder how it happened that he married Elizabeth Decow, who was clearly part of a Quaker family in Burlington County, New Jersey. I wonder how and when they met.
I, too, have found a great deal of confusion about Patrick’s son John, as you say. It sounds to me as though your Rices of Rice’s Landing may well have had close ties to the family in Frederick County, Virginia, but I still know so little about the family in Frederick County that I’m not sure I could pinpoint how they were connected.
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Yes, that’s the information I have about this John Rice. You’ll have to help me understand how this will doesn’t match up with Patrick Rice’s bible transcript. I think this is John son of Patrick, born 11 August 1744, according to Patrick’s bible record. I can’t see how the will would conflict with that bible record. Please help me understand what you mean.
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I guess there’s just a hiccup or potential identification somewhere I dont understand either. Patrick Rice’s son, John Rice, is often listed as “John Rice Sr” born 1730 in every online lineage I’ve seen. His supposed son, “John Rice Jr” is often listed as being born in 1745 and was said to be the founder/namesake of Rice’s Landing, PA. He married Sarah Roach, sister to Thomas Roach.
His listed children were:
were William, owned the Brick Tavern House at Rices Landing and ran the ferry; m. Rebecca; d. abt. 1851
John III
Thomas, b. 5 Apr 1774; m Susannah Myers, dau. of George Myers, Sr.
Nancy, m. William Harrod, son of Capt. William and Amelia (Stephens) Harrod; removed to Kentucky then to Indiana
Mary, m. Henry Sharpnack
Rachel, m. Robert McMinn of Ireland
Jesse,
Nathan, administrator of his father’s will; d. intestate about 1821
Hannah 1762 – 1850 m. Amos Milner
Sarah, m. Mr. Harling
Benjamin
It is quite confusing. According to Cresswell’s Journal, Capt George Rice, son of Patrick visited his unnamed brother South of Fort Pitt (which is where Rice’s Landing, about 50 or so miles on the Monongahela)
The ages I don’t think match up. If this “John Rice Sr” or John son of Patrick was born in 1745, it seems it wouldn’t be his son John who in 1780, obtained a Virginia Certificate issuing him 389 acres in Rice’s Landing. The year is also listed as 1786, would would certainly not be John son of Patrick since he was said to have died in 1785 according to the will.
It is something I will have to dig into.
https://www.google.com/books/edition/Pastor_John_Corbly/PeaRxwimacYC?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=John%20Rice
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Thanks for continuing to help me understand. I really don’t see a strong reason to doubt the testimony of Patrick Rice’s bible that he had a son John born 11 August 1744. I’m also pretty sure this John is the man who married Hannah Roach, daughter of Richard Roach and Hannah Sands. I’m also pretty sure this John died before 3 May 1785 in Frederick County, Virginia. His will does indicate he had a son John, who would have had to have been born at least 20 years after 1744. Sr. and Jr. don’t necessarily mean, of course, that one man designated as Sr. is the father of another man designated as Jr. — only that the man designated as Sr. is older than the Jr. and living in the same area, hence the need to use the Sr. and Jr. designation.
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As I keep thinking about this: If the information that John Rice Jr. was born in 1745 is correct, and John Rice Sr. was his father, then I’d have to conclude that John Rice Sr. is not the John Rice who was a son of Patrick Rice, but a relative — brother, perhaps? What makes me reluctant to entertain that possibility is that I just don’t find in the Rice records I’ve sifted through an older John Rice of the generation of Patrick. Admittedly, I have done little research except on Patrick and his family, but I would tend to think there would be a clear documentary trail to an older John who is of the generation of Patrick. I do wonder if something is garbled in the family histories that show a John Rice having a son John when the older man was only 15. I think the best way to sort this out is to work back from the records documenting the Rices at Rice’s Landing and see what trail back in time can be discovered. I have tended to think, by the way, that the brother Creswell mentions George Rice visiting was Zachariah Connell, George’s brother-in-law. As you know, at this period, brothers- and sisters-in-law were called usually simply brothers and sisters, without the in-law tag added.
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I dont believe the assumption about brother being connell is correct. Cresswell specifically mentions brother in law, and at a later date brother is mentioned south of Ft Pitt.
I also noticed Edward (Edmund) Rice is mentioned as loaning a horse to a Cresswell’s crew in Sept 1775 which leads me to believe it is Georges brother Edmund.
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Thank you for the additional information about what Creswell says. I think I missed some of his references to George Rice’s relatives, and will add notes about that to what I posted about Creswell’s journal and George Rice. As I think I may have said to you in other communications, I wonder if Edmund, brother of George Rice, may actually be the missing link you’re seeking to track the Rice’s Landing Rices back and see how they connect to the Frederick County Rices, as it appears they do. I have done very little research on John, Edmund, and their brother-in-law Zachariah Connell — on the Pennsylvania branches of Patrick Rice’s family, that is — and don’t think I’ve been very helpful to you, because I know next to nothing about those sets of Rices.
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One thing I’d like to point out: there’s just a lot of misinformation in family trees for the Patrick Rice family. The information that his son John was born in 1730 or thereabouts was bad guesswork of a lot of folks in the past. We now know from his family bible that he married wife Elizabeth Decow on 3 December 1734, in all likelihood where she lived, in Mansfield, Burlington County, New Jersey. And we have a firm — as far as I’m concerned — birthdate for their son John, 11 August 1744. Elizabeth’s name has long been given erroneously in various trees as Brooks. It was Patrick’s son George who married Elizabeth Brooks, however. I see trees misidentifying John Rice’s wife Hannah (or so I have concluded) as someone other than Hannah Roach. I’m confident his wife was Hannah, daughter of Richard Roach and Hannah Sands, whose son Micajah married George Rice and Elizabeth Brooks’s daughter Ruth.
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I appreciate the information. I’ve definitely noticed that. Pastor John Corbly has things to say about the John Rice/Hannah Rice family and says that John Rice, father of Edmund, George, James, Mary, Sarah, watched Corbly’s family while he was on the frontier and eventually deeded his land when he returned, which there is a sales record of.
https://www.google.com/books/edition/Pastor_John_Corbly/PeaRxwimacYC?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=John%20Rice
There’s certainly something people are missing. I’m pretty new at this. Not one to trust other’s unsourced or poorly sourced information.
But the John Rice of Rice’s Landing married a Sarah Roach, whose brother was Thomas Roach. Thomas Roach is kind of an anchor for this John Rice. They show up together in records/censuses/petitions along with my suspected William Rice.
I haven’t been able to connect Thomas Roach with Micajah Roach.
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John Corbly’s information is very valuable — and still confusing to me. When he speaks of the Rice family taking care of his children, and his children playing with the Rice children, he seems to be speaking of Frederick County in the latter half of the 1760s. And he speaks of John Rice with wife Hannah as father of the Rice children, whose names he gives. Then, later, he speaks of John Rice Jr. going with a group of settlers to Pennsylvania. This can’t be the son of John with wife Hannah, who was born 11 August 1746. That John Jr. would have been only a child in the latter part of the 1760s. Something’s mixed up here, and I can’t quite untangle the knots.
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I should also add that Cresswell/ George Rice seems to have visited Zachariah Connell in late April.
on September 14th Cresswell is at Fort Pitt. And 2 weeks later he meets Edward Rice, who loans him a horse, which lends further credence to the idea that George’s “brother South of Fort Pitt” was Edmund/Edward Rice.
—
“Fort Pitt—Thursday, September 14th, 1775. Got to Fort Pitt about noon
…..
Saturday, September 30th, 1775. Went over the River and bought a Porcupine Skin of an
Indian. It is something like our Hedgehog at home, only the quills are longer, the Indians
dye them of various colours and work them on their trinkets. Mr. Edward Rice promised
me his horse to carry me to V. Crawford’s on Monday”
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Yes, I had known from Creswell’s journal that George Rice visited his brother-in-law Zacharian Connell. I agree with you that Edward is likely Edmund, George’s brother.
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Yes, apologies for the seeming repetition. I meant the post to point out the timing/dates between Cresswell’s journal mentioning Georges “brother in law” in April, Zachariah Connelx and the 5 months later when they were around Ft Pitt/Edward/Edmund Rice which lent some truth to it being his brother Edmund being the unnamed brother.
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You may well be right that the brother George was visiting was his brother Edmund. Not sure what it was in Cresswell’s text that gave me the idea when I read it that it was Zachariah Connell to which the reference to George’s brother pointed.
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I couldn’t find the other article I replied to.
But a John McCormick served as a witness to a Robert Worthington in Frederick Co, VA Deed Books 1743-1758
https://www.werelate.org/wiki/Person:Robert_Worthington_(8)
According to the records on this page the same Robert Worthington was a witness along with Simeon Rice on another record.
Frederick Co, VA Deed Books 1743-1758 FHL book 3 Nov1746 Robert WORTHINGTON of Frederick Co to William McKAY of same. £75 for 435 acres being on a branch of Shenandoah River called Bullskin Run on the head of the north fork of same, and being part of a tract of 3,000 acres Granted by Patent to Robert WORTHINGTON now dec’d on 3 Oct 1734 and being part of 600 acres allotted for the said Robert WORTHINGTON out of the aforesaid 3,000 acres by an Order & Decree in Orange County Court. Witnesses: Samuel WALKER, William MITCHELL & **John McCORMICK** (land now in Clarke Co, VA)
Frederick Co, VA Deed Books 1743-1758 FHL book 16 Mar 1754 Know all men by these presents that I, Hugh WALKER of Cecil County in Maryland. . . for sundry good cause and considerations, nominated, constituted and appointed in my place and stead my trusty and well beloved friend John HARDIN of Frederick County in Virginia, my true and lawfull attorney, to ask, demand, recover and receive for me in my name. . . And to my use. . . of William DAVIS & Samuel WALKER of County of Frederick the sum of £60 of good and lawfull money of Virginia oweth to me. Witnesses: Robert WORTHNGTON, George LYNCH, Richard MOUNTS, John HARDIN jr & Simon RICE
If this John McCormick is closely related to William Mccormick, who married Elizabeth Rice daughter of George certainly it isn’t all coincidence?
The mess of “John Rice Sr” and “John Rice Jr” is definitely a tangle for another day or something I will have to try to outsource. As you’ve mentioned previously, I think the answer could rely on an elder John being around and called “Sr” vs a younger later John being Jr.
As for the Jon Rice/Thomas Hart witness connection from the previous record mentioned, certainly that can’t be a coincidence either? They were listed as neighbors in the area to Simon/Simeon/Cimon Rice.
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Definitely very interesting finds. The Worthington connection seems worth pursuing. I think perhaps the John McCormick who witnessed the 1746 deed is Dr. John McCormick, progenitor of the McCormick family in Frederick County and grandfather of William McCormick who married Elizabeth Rice. I just can’t place Simeon Rice, unfortunately. He’s a new name for me — but as I’ve said before, given how little (virtually nothing) that seems to be known of Patrick Rice’s background, it’s entirely possible he had relatives of his generation or older in Frederick County.
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I wanted to follow up here- According to a VA militia record from Frederick Co and 1758-
George, Edward, and Patrick Rice served with a Robert Worthington in the VA Militia. Simeon Rice’s relationship to Patrick Rice doesn’t seem to be much explored online and they seemed to be tied together in location and contemporaries. – Persons specifically Robert Worthington and the McCormick family, along with Thomas Hart.
Link: https://www.ewingfamilyassociation.org/books/WmofFrederickCo/EwingFrederickCoChp2.htm
Another note on the VA that is peculiar is the three VanMetres listed. Van Metres are in early SW PA/NW VA records with Rice’s before they also end up in Louisville/Jefferson County KY.
in 1773 in the Annals of SW Pennsylvania A Henry Van Metre shows up with John Rice, Thomas Roach, Acquilla Martin(said to be John Rice’s wife’s brother-in-law), and a man named William Rice whom I am almost positive is my earliest known ancestors father and the man, and his family, whom I’m trying to track down.
Annals link: https://www.google.com/books/edition/Annals_of_Southwestern_Pennsylvania/DlAMAAAAYAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=%22William%20Rice%22
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Thank you for this additional interesting and valuable information. I think the Edward Rice named in the militia list was likely Edmund/Edmond. Your discovery of Simeon Rice seems to me a promising avenue for further research. Until you had told me about him, I had not encountered him.
I had mentioned to you I’d see if I could find more information for you on the Rice’s Landing branch of the Rice family, and I did do some research. The one piece of information I found that seems to me important is the following — and it’s possible I’m giving you information you already have: John Rice entered 389 acres at the Rice’s Landing site on 15 April 1780, and the land was surveyed 4 February 1785, with the warrant for the land issued 2 March 1786. John got this tract of land as a Virginia certificate. The original land entry is apparently recorded in an untitled book in the Pennsylvania Archives of land entries of tracts issued in Pennsylvania under Virginia jurisdiction, 1779-1780 — and this book was published in Pennsylvania Archives, 3rd series, vol. 3, pp. 483-573. The entry for John Rice is on p. 6 of the original book, certificate 88 for Cumberland township.
If you don’t have this land record, I think it would be really important to get a copy of the original. If it mentions where John Rice lived at the time the land certificate was given to him, or the names of other Rices connected to him, it would help you figure out where he came from — and possibly his connection to the Frederick County, Virginia, Rice family.
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Thank you for the information and specifics.
I have seen references but not the primary document. Every place online seems to think the Rice’s Landing John Rice is the son of this supposed John Rice Sr, not Patrick Rice, and would be Patrick Rice’s Grandson not his son. According to the Bible register posted on your blog here there’s something wrong with that assumption. But the supposed date of birth and contemporaries tie him back to the Frederick County VA area. You’d have to imagine it was also either Edward Rice(who was in the area), or John Rice who was the “brother living south of Fort Pitt(Rice’s Landing)” mentioned by Nicholas Cresswel’s journall and George Rice, son of Patrick.
A couple of other interesting tidbits – We can basically pinpoint where Simeon Rice’s land was: https://sherlene4.wordpress.com/2007/02/06/william-hall-i-the-old-pioneer-1708-1764-so-thomas-hall-and-sarah-brave-m-hannah-richardson-1731-in-pa-of-halltown-frederick-virginia/
1763–OWNED GRIST MILL/RIONS RAN NEARBY FULLING MILL/NEIGHBORS: Another early mill owner in early Jefferson County was William Vestal (first husband of Hannah Potts, who married William’s son Thomas). See notes of son Thomas, RIN 23799, for an account of what happened to William’s mills from 1769 on–also for more about William’s neighbors in Jefferson County, including Gershom Keyes (RIN 7301–land transactions 1763 involving his son Humphrey (RIN 699), Joseph McCormacks, John Carlyle, John Gladdion, John Sewell, John Crow, Simeon Rice, and Robert Harper. –shb 1 Mar 2000
1763–OTHER FREDERICK COUNTY NEIGHBORS: See 1763 notes of William’s son-in-law Humphrey Keyes for land survey by John Semple [there are “Sample” grants on p. 138–shb], of Maryland, assignee of Gersham Keys–lists land on south of Shanandoah “adj. Humphrey Keyes, his own (G. Keyes) land. Robt. Harper. CC – ****Thos Hart & Jno Rice. Survey Thomas Rutherford.” –shb 27 Sep 2000****
A question here would be who is this “Jon Rice” with Thomas Hart. I am unsure what his name means attached to this record, and his relationship with Thomas Hart who shows up with other Rice’s in records. – Is it the son of Patrick Rice, b 1745, founder of Rice’s Landing?
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I do think finding those land records — and getting copies of the originals — would be a great step, since they’re the first thing that pins your John Rice to the Rice’s Landing spot, and because the land grant originated in Virginia, that confirms he was there before settling in Pennsylvania. My own deduction is that, with the name John repeating in the Rice family, family lore and/or historians have oversimplified the story of which John Rice was the Rice’s Landing settler. You’re doing good work, fleshing out the records for and story of Simeon Rice. I’ll see if I can help you track that original land record.
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I appreciate what information you’ve dug up and respect your research here on everything along with what feedback you can give.
As I’ve said before, I think, my main purpose here is to deduce who my EKA Jonathan B Rice’s father was, a man named William and said to be with some of the earliest immigrants to Jefferson County Ky.
And before I’ve mentioned my unproven theory that he could be the son of Edmund Rice (son of Patrick brother of George) – I’ve never seen any online lineages regarding Edmund having children however.
I’m almost positive he is the William Rice on the petition in of Petitions of the early inhabitants of Kentucky to the General Assembly of Virginia read 1780 – He is with a John Rice in that petition. Probably his brother. My Jonathan B Rice and his brother Captain William M Rice (d1829) came out of Henry County Kentucky. A William Rice has died there in 1807 with a will that only mentions a brother, John. In the same petition are other SW PA/NW VA immigrants – Also a lot of Bantas, low dutch, who settled in the drennons creek/ six mile creek area of now Henry County KY which is where my Jonathan B and William M Rice lived. Bantas served under Captain William M Rice in the war of 1812 and Of course the militia was formed from other locals.
One name that specifically sticks out on the petition is Ezekiel Hickman. Ezekiel Hickman is also in a 1770 Tyrone Township/SW PA census whose next door neighboor is none other than Edmund Rice.
https://www.jstor.org/stable/23367436?seq=6#metadata_info_tab_contents
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I don’t recall finding any published lineages naming children of Edmund Rice, son of Patrick, either. I do know Edmund had a wife Ruth as of June 1773, since she gave her release when Edmond (the spelling used here) Rice of Frederick County deeded to Michael and Bartholomew Smith land at the head of Long Marsh, with the deed noting that the land had been granted to Patrick Rice 14 April 1752, and had been transferred by Patrick to his two sons George and Edmund (Frederick Co. DB 16, p. 309). Ruth gave her release on 2 June 1773.
Part of the problem, as you know, is that a lot of researchers have confused Patrick’s son Edmund with Edmund, son of George Rice and Elizabeth Brooks, who did not have children. I suspect that since many researchers think they “know” what became of Edmund son of Patrick — that he died testate without children in 1797 — they have not investigated his uncle Edmund to see what became of him and whether he had children.
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I can’t help with the sorting of who was who in the lineage of the John Rice who founded Rices Landing in PA. I am researching that place and that John Rice for an article for the Royce Family Association Quarterly. (Robert Royce, immigrant to Colonial New England had many descendants whose surname morphed to Rice.)
I am pretty sure from my own brief research and what I have read in this post above, that the John Rice of Rices Landing was a southern Rice family and probably totally unrelated to either Robert Royce of New England or Edmund Rice of Sudbury MA. There is an Edmund Rice y-DNA group on FTDNA and there is a Robert Royce y-DNA group that a man in our association administers.
I would like to hear more about any y-DNA info you have on the southern Rice lines. Thanks
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Thank you for your comment and the helpful information. A Rice, the Rice researchar who has left a thread of comments here about the Rice family of Rice’s Landing, has done much more research on that branch of the Rice family than I have, and I think he should be very intereted in your information. It meshes with his own findings — namely, that thie Rice family of Rice’s Landing is definitely a Southern Rice family and appears to have blood ties to the Rices of Frederick County, Virginia, who used the given name Edmund. I’m hoping A Rice will see your comment. I will also see if I can put the two of you in touch with each other.
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Hi Kate,
Direct relatives of “John Rice Jr” and/or his sons are in Group 14 of the Rice surname Y Dna project.
My EKA was a Jonathan B Rice (1790 ky -1872 d kankakee). His father was a man named William. Jonathan B Rice had a brother who was a captain in the war of 1812, in the Battle of the Thames at Tecumseh’s death, and a Kentucky State Rep in 1816. They settled in the six mile creek area of now Henry County Ky. Eventually Jonathan moved to Indiana then Illinois.
My YDNA has connected me very closely to the direct relatives of Rice’s landing rices but precisely how is a big mystery.
I’ve compiled a bunch of old records of my eka’s father placing a William Rice with the right places/time/people but his exact relation is unknown.
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Thanks for getting back to me. The Royce Family Association has someone managing our y-DNA “off books” or something—(tests thru FTDNA.) Keeping it private. But I see on FTDNA and also on the Edmund Rice dot org site that they have a group 14 for Rices Landing and a group 3 for descendants of Robert Royce.
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I’ve mentioned John Corbly in here before and wanted to share some new information.
I’ve discovered some new (unsourced) information that states John Corbly arrived in America and was apprenticed to a John Rice, a Pennsylvania Quaker, whom had a daughter Abigail who was Corbly’s first wife.
Link:
This is all new information to me. I’ve yet to find anything else about who this John Rice, Quaker was. Trying to suss any of it out is complicated. It definitely is peculiar considering other information written about Corbly and his potential ties to the Frederick County Rice’s.
Also piques my interest considering the Patrick Rice/Decow Quaker connection.
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Thank you for this valuable piece of information, which is new to me. I agree: this is a clue well worth pursuing, given that we know Patrick Rice married a member of a Quaker DeCow family who lived in Burlington County, New Jersey. I’ll see if I can find more to add to the good things you’ve already found out about this.
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Further information I’ve discovered does not have this information as accurate. I am away from my bookmarks but they have his wife as Abigail, but with no information linking her to any Rice’s.
I’ve reached out to the corbly association to see if they can help out.
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I’m sorry to hear the information turned out not to be accurate. Please keep me posted if you hear more about this.
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Corbly apprenticed under a Roger Kirk, whose daughter was abigail Kirk, whom Corbly married according to the Corbly Assoc.
I did bring up the hiccup in the presumed John Rice lineage of Corbly’s books.
There was another Jon Rice in the area at the time whoever he might be and surely isnt John Rice Jr, son of Patrick born in 1747
“ 1763–OTHER FREDERICK COUNTY NEIGHBORS: See 1763 notes of William’s son-in-law Humphrey Keyes for land survey by John Semple [there are “Sample” grants on p. 138–shb], of Maryland, assignee of Gersham Keys–lists land on south of Shanandoah “adj. Humphrey Keyes, his own (G. Keyes) land. Robt. Harper. CC – ****Thos Hart & Jno Rice. Survey Thomas Rutherford.” –shb 27 Sep 2000****”
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Thanks for this additional information. I’ll watch for these names as I do work in Frederick County.
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I did discover something interesting I am trying to think out that is connecting John Rice/Corbly with relatives/names.
Corbly’s sale to a John Rice in 1773 on the Cacapon was witnessed by a Bazil Bowell and a Thomas Bowell.
——-
There is this old court record the mentions Edward Rice of Frederick County:
Index Number: 1841-043 (original: 1841-034 Csc)view details »
Locality: FREDERICK CO
Plaintiff(s) Defendant(s)
Sarah Cowan
Mary McCormick
HEIR(S) OF **Mary Babb** ETC
Rees Hill
Edward Rice ETC
——–
From my limited research it seems Bazil Bowel married Mary Bowen Babb’s sister, Margaret.
Children of Henry Bowen and Anna Moon:
….
daughters:
Mary Bowen m. Peter Babb
Hannah Bowen m. Isaac Heaton
Margaret Bowen m. Bazil Bowell
Jean/Jane Bowen m. James Fitzpatrick
Nancy/Ann Bowen m. James Carter
Priscilla Bowen m. Robert Hill
I don’t quite understand what the Court records are saying – I haven’t viewed the original document. I know the defendants, Sarah Cowan and Mary McCormick are George Rice’s family. But I don’t know how Mary Bowen Babb and Edward Rice fit in as defendants.
It’s just a another connection between family and the Corbly land sale record to a John Rice. Mary Bowen Babb and husband Peter eventually migrated to Greene County, PA from Frederick County Virginia. This is where Rice’s Landing/John Rice/Edward Rice/Zachariah Connell Rebecca Rice migrated to.
Mary Bowen Babb
https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Bowen-1105
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These definitely seem to be records worth pursuing, especially when both a Rice and a McCormick are mentioned in one of them. I wonder who this John Rice is. When I see a transcript of a record giving the name Edward Rice among the Frederick County Rices, I always want to find the original and see if this truly is an Edward. The given name Edmund/Edmond was common among the Frederick County Rices, and often gets mistranscribed as Edward.
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Thanks for the feedback. I’ve seen it Edmund and Edward and assume it was a incorrectly transcribed or somehow used interchangeably?
There’s the Cresswell journal, which mentions Capt George Rice’s venture into modern day PA, his unnamed “brother south of Fort Pitt” (John? as presumed at Rice’s Landing) and then the mention of “Edward Rice” loaning the group horses.
The 1758 voting record in Frederick County for George Washington names Patrick, George, and Edward Rice. (also names Henry Bowen and Peter Babb, along with a Thomas Hart, another Rice historical record link.)
All of this and I still am not any closer to figuring out who my direct ancestors father was, a man named William Rice – and why he isn’t listed in any of these old wills. The DNA suggests he’s a child of Patrick, George, Edmund, or someone very close to them. This William’s son, Captain William Rice, was born circa 1774 and died in 1829 in Henry Co Kentucky so original William was born mid 1750s at the latest? Perplexing really.
I believe he is the William Rice, died 1807 in Henry County KY who left his scant belongings to a brother, John.
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I think finding and reading carefully that initial Virginia land grant for the land that became Rice’s Landing is key here. Who got that grant, and for what reasons was it granted? What names appear on it?
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Additionally
If it is the same Henry Bowen, Mary Bowen Babb’s father served with Captain George Rice, Patrick’s son during the revolution. According to online genealogies, Henry Bowen’s sister was Jane Kirk(married Roger Kirk), mother of John Corbly’s first wife Abigail.
https://www.geni.com/people/Jane-Kirk/6000000012588422621
—————–
Revolutionary War Bounty Warrants Page # 1 [of 1]
http://image.lva.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/GetRev.pl?dir=0800/B0018&card=9
Document Images
Bowen, Henry.
Gen. note Rank: Sergeant.
Service: Army.
See papers, 1784.
[I] do Hereby Certify that Henry Bowen a Serjeant
in the 13th Virginia Regt was Enlisted on the
2d day of may 1777 and Served three years
as a Sergant in Said Regt Serving the full
time of his Enlistment.
Geo. Rice
Richmond June 20 1783 Late Capt in the
11th Virga. Regt
————————–
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Very interesting, the tie to George Rice.
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The Virginia land grant original is certainly something I’d like to locate. My researching time is boom and bust and I’m not sure if I have the time to really figure it out. Eventually it all makes my head spin a bit and I have to step away.
In the above I incorrectly mentioned Sarah Cowan/Mary Mccormick vs Mary Babb Heirs and Edward Rice as being daughters of George Rice but it looks like they were daughters of John.
Hannah, widow of John Rice, left a will dated 16 Jan. 1811, pr. 4 Feb. 1811 (Frederick Co., VA,
WB 9, 1810-1816, pp. 34-5), which mentions she was widow of John Rice, and names her
children by them, Mary named as Mary McDonald, and Sarah as Sarah Cowan (King, pp.
92-3). The will shows that she married John Donaldson after the death of John Rice. Note that
the names of Mary McDonald and Sarah Cowan don’t match names of the nieces of George
Rice of the 1792 will below.
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I do think getting the paperwork for the original grant that established Rice’s Landing would help you determine quite a bit about which Rices were involved in setting that place up, how they connected, how they might connect to other Rice families, and why at least one of them was granted that land by the colony of Virginia.
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In addition I have recently discovered a lead in early Union County, Kentucky on the family I have never come across before.
“Henderson Co. KY Deed (FHL film 572,579)
O-462: Whereas on 16 Oct. 1823, Union Co. circuit court ordered that of the estate of Alexander Spotswood, George W. Spotswood, William Spotswood, Bushrod Washington Jr. and wife Henryetta late Spotswood, (blank) Taliaferro and wife Ann W.B. late Spotswood, Martha Ann Spotswood and other unknown heirs of Alexander Spotswood decd, and George Spotswood and William Spotswood exec. of estate of Alexander Spotswood decd; and Philip H. Jones late of “your” bailiwick; you cause to be (collected) $1000 which lately in Union Co. was decreed to ***Edmund Rice, James Rice, William McCormack & wife Mary, Nathaniel Cowan and wife Sally, Sally Ann Rice and John Rice as heirs of John Rice decd***, and Clement Buckman for debt; to satisfy debt a tract of land in Henderson Co. on Highland Creek patented in name of Fountain Maury be sold; the highest bidder on 11 Nov. 1823 was William Grundy for $5″
https://homepages.rootsweb.com/~dobson/ky/kynelson.htm
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Thanks for sharing this document. I hadn’t seen it previously. Since Hannah Roach Rice’s 1811 will names her daughter Mary as Mary McDonald and this document gives Mary’s husband as William McCormack, I wonder if Mary’s McDonald husband died between 1811 and 1823 and Mary then remarried to William McCormack.
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I’ve only recently noticed this and remembered this bit of info you gave me that verifies the date. I’ve read this before I don’t know how I didn’t notice.
You said:
Thanks for continuing to help me understand. I really don’t see a strong reason to doubt the testimony of Patrick Rice’s bible that he had a son John born 11 August 1744. I’m also pretty sure this John is the man who married Hannah Roach, daughter of Richard Roach and Hannah Sands. I’m also pretty sure this John died before 3 May 1785 in Frederick County, Virginia. His will does indicate he had a son John, who would have had to have been born at least 20 years after 1744. Sr. and Jr. don’t necessarily mean, of course, that one man designated as Sr. is the father of another man designated as Jr. — only that the man designated as Sr. is older than the Jr. and living in the same area, hence the need to use the Sr. and Jr. designation.
In Patrick’s 1744 Letter back to Isaac Decow asking about the book of Josephus History and thanking them for the previous visit they returned from he says his wife bore a child on the 12th of August. Which is just one day off, but would consider it such a verification of this previous Bible register.
https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Genealogy_of_the_DeCou_Family/yGVGAAAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=Rice
I’ve read through some early history of the area – It describes the earliest surveys and land allotments and the first waves of immigrants to Frederick County, Va area. Patrick Rice is mentioned specifically, but it would give a general timeline for when he and was wife showed up. Coupled with the 1744 letter even further narrows it down. It is interesting the names that show up in the lists amount first settlers that arrived from Bucks County PA (next to Burlington Co NJ) were later surnames that showed up in the travels from Frederick Co to Rice’s Landing and on to KY.
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Thank you for pointing out that Patrick Rice’s letter to Isaac Decow confirms the 11 or 12 August 1744 birthdate for John Rice. I do know that Patrick Rice was in Frederick County by 7 May 1746, since the county court order book for that date says that on 7 May 1746, Lewis Neill, Gent., and Patrick Rice were ordered to lay off and mark a road to the chapel at Cunningham’s (Frederick OB 2, p. 88). I tend to think that Patrick was already in Frederick County when he married Elizabeth Decow on 3 December 1734 in Burlington County, New Jersey, and that he brought her to Frederick County immediatley after their marriage. But that’s just a hunch, and I don’t have proof of it.
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Patrick Rice was definitely in the county by 1744 – His letter is written from Opequon area in 1744 after returning from his wife’s family.
The previously mentioned Van Metre family is listed with Patrick, George, and Edmund/or Edward in the 1758 election records of Frederick Co:
https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_West_Virginia_Historical_Magazine_Qu/aLI-AAAAYAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=%22Van+Metre%22+and+Patrick+Rice%22&pg=PA59&printsec=frontcover
Van Metre’s travel from SE PA/SW NJ is documented down to the year along with some of Patrick Rice’s Frederick County Neighbors(Lindseys) – I will have to dig up the source but it was 1743 or before.
The fact that some of those neighbors eventually end up Greene County, SW PA area along with my Y DNA relatives is the icing on the cake. Some of those exact immigrants were neighbors with and mentioned in multiple records with Edmund Rice, circa 1772 SW PA. They’re also listed with a William Rice, whom I believe to be my 4x Grandfather’s father, who we know was named William. But Most of their contemplates and their connections are based off of military records – they certainly traveled around a lot.
P.S. Not sure if you’ve ever came across it but Patrick Rice is listed in 2 George Washington records. Once in Washington’s personal journals and he also served as a chainman on one of Washington’s survey in the VA area.
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Yes, you’re right, the letter he wrote to in September 1744 to Isaac Decow itself shows that Patrick Rice and wife Elizabeth were living in Frederick County by that point. I continue to think that Patrick was already living in Frederick County when he married Elizabeth Decow and that he brought her there immediately after they married. I do think I’ve seen records connecting Patrick Rice and George Washington.
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It leaves a lot of questions as usual. But the Van Metres migrated from Jersey as well, and they divied up a lot of land. I’m not sure its strains credulity to ponder if the Rice family was a part of these families since so many of their neighbors have the connections with the Van Metres. Pastor Corbly even shows up again with Van metres in SW PA, another odd connection.
“In 1730 their petitions for 10,000 acres each in the forks of the Sherando River and 20,000 more for other families were granted. “
It’s a wonder the Mccmormick/Rice Irish connection with all of these Dutch folks though in early VA though.
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There definitely was quite a bit of interchange between Ulster Scots, borderland English and Scots, and people from the Rhineland, both German and Dutch, in the backcountry. This is a point discussed in David Hackett Fischer’s Albion’s Seed, which must — I haven’t checked my copy to confirm, but I’m pretty sure it’s there — have information about Joist Hite and the folks he brought from the middle colonies into Virginia.
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I have found some Vague quaker connections that I haven’t dig too far into but seems to be a great lead as any.
“At Monocacy, Md., where a number of German and Quaker families from New Jersey and Pennsylvania, had settled about 1725 – John Van Meter, and possibly Isaac, too, bought considerable land”
https://freepages.rootsweb.com/~barbpretz/genealogy/ps05/ps05_057.htm
—
Growth of the Maryland Quaker community was slow compared to the rapid influx of Quakers across the Potomac in Virginia. When Jeremiah Brown, William Kirk, Joseph England and John Churchman visited the Friends in 1734, they reported “that those Friends residing at Monoquacy and Oppeckon and thereabouts have and keep a Monthly Meeting for discipline amongst them and that it go under the name as they call it, Hopewell…” Although the Monocacy Quakers established religious services prior to those of the Quakers in Virginia, by 1735 there were so many more Quakers in Virginia than at Monocacy that Virginia’s Hopewell was made the business meeting for the combined area.
**Between 1736 and 1739, Josiah Ballenger with his wife Mary and children Josiah, Jr., Sarah and James, together with his father-in-law James Wright, joined the Quaker movement to Virginia (note from JR: above paragraphs say James Wright didn’t leave until the 1750s).**
Link: https://sites.rootsweb.com/~quakers/monocacy.htm
—–
A Josiah Ballenger is on the 1756 George Washington voter list along with Patrick Rice, George, and Edward Rice. So they were neighbors.
I apologize is this is stuff you’ve read before – Especially regarding Quakers. My knowledge of the history of the Quakers and the Pennsylvania/New Jersey to VA pipeline is minimal. I didn’t realize Patrick Rice was also surrounded by so many Quakers, other than the previously mentioned Decow connection.
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Yes, there are definitely strong connections in the Rice and Brooks kinship network with Quaker families, though as far as I can determine, as with Patrick Rice, my Brooks family was not a Quaker family by the time it came to Frederick County, though it persistently married into families with Quaker roots like the Hollingsworths and Harlands/Harlans. There was even a Van Meter marriage in the Brooks family, when Hiram J. Van Winkle, son of Ransom Van Winkle and Margaret Brooks, married Mary H. Van Meter in Sangamon County, Illinois, on 26 April 1855. I’m not sure that that marriage would sustain the idea, though, that the Brooks were strongly connected to the Van Meters back in Virginia.
In his book Carolina Cradle, Robert W. Ramsey notes that Quakers settled in the Monocacy Valley before 1729, and that this migration of Quakers into western Maryland was the first Quaker migration in America away from navigable waters. Echoing Hinshaw in his Encyclopedia of American Quaker Genealogy, Ramsey thinks that the majority of these Monocacy Quakers came either from Salem Co., New Jersey, or from the Nottingham region along the Chester-Cecil Co. border of Maryland and Virginia. Ramsey also cites Rufus M. Jones, Quakers in the American Colonies, who states that a large and influential migration of Friends from Pennsylvania to the Southern colonies occurred roughly from 1725 to 1775. He notes that this migration began with a movement of a group of Friends from Salem, New Jersey, and another group from Nottingham, Pennsylvania, to the country along the Monocacy River. According to Jones, sometime around 1730, a monthly meeting called Monoquesy began near the present village of Buckstown (ibid., pp. 295-6). As does Ramsey, Jones notes that this was the first migration of American Quakers toward the west and away from navigable waters.
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Very well could be. Could only assume from the records I’ve seen, but it isn’t a bad assumption.
We know when a lot of his neighbors showed up. I can’t imagine he would have been there before them, but there wouldn’t be any record.
—
“It is known that in 1732, that Jost Hite with sixteen families went into
the Shenandoah Valley and from that date there has been a record kept and the settlement reaches back to that date, beyond question, with the further question, of whether there was others there before that date, unsettled.” – Maybe he was with the 16 families?
—
Robert Worthington received his land in 1734. He was neighbors with Rices in early records and shows up in a couple.
It would have been Spotsylvania County I believe then – Then in 1734 Orange County, then Finally Frederick County.
This is a great source for all those early land records:
https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_West_Virginia_Historical_Magazine_Qu/aLI-AAAAYAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=Rice
” The first patent or grant of land west of the Blue Ridge was made to Jost Hite, 20 Aug. 1734,-see Grant Book No. 15, page 276. In this grant, it is said, that it is designed to be included in a county to be called Orange, being part of the forty thousand acres purchased by the said Jost Hite from Isaac and John Van Meter”
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I haven’t seen anything connection Patrick Rice to Joist Hite. I think perhaps the connection that may count more than anything for Patrick Rice’s settling in Frederick County is a Quaker connection though I don’t see any evidence that Rice himself was a Quaker. He was clearly, though, what the Quakers called Friendly, well-disposed to the Quakers and preferring to live close to them.
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I believe Patrick’s land was originally Jost Hites that Hite purchased from Van Meters. They had something lke 40,000 acres. I know Dr John Mccmormick’s land was originally Jost Hites and he was next door neighbors with Patrick Rice.
No evidence that Patrick Rice was with those original families, but a lot of his neighbors were either with that group or arrived close after. The Van Meters themselves followed Rices all the way into Rice’s Landing and then on to very early pioneer Kentucky.
It’s odd after all this time no one has been able to ascertained when and where these Rice’s arrived.
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This page talks about Van Meters and their immigration with Rice’s from VA to SW PA on to Kentucky.
https://uh.edu/~jbutler/gean/wildernessroad.html
Of course there’s the Henry Van Metre that is in the 1773 SW PA indictment with my EKA’s suspected father, William Rice, along with John Rice, Thomas Roach, and Acquilla Martin, all Rice relatives.
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Thank you — interesting information, for sure.
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This is new information and kind of exciting to me – This letter written to George Washington places a John Rice in the South of Fort Pitt area in 1774. It’s the earliest record I’ve seen. It places him in the Northwest Part of the County, Northwest of Zachariah Connell/Connellsville PA. The northwest part also borders the Monongahela, which is where Rice’s landing rests on.
P 399
https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_frontier_forts_of_western_Pennsylvan/Dhs-AAAAYAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=Rice
Of course the early records tell us Edmund Rice and Zachariah Connell were in the same area by at least 1772. Edmund/Edmond’s brother George also traveled through the area, and was party of Boquets Expedition in the area at an even earlier date (mid 1750s?)
The question becomes is this John Rice, son of Patrick? I doubt it is any of Patrick’s grandchildren unless some of his sons had children at very early ages (17-18-19)
My unproven guess is also that Edmond had at least two sons, William and a John Rice – With William being my 4X Great Grandfather’s father, William Rice. My Eka’s ancestor’s brother was born around 1774 based on records and deferred from his newspaper Eulogy after he passed in 1829. This means his father was what, born in 1756 at a minimum? Not sure how the ages all break down. If he was Edmond, son of Patrick’s son he would have to be born around that time if Edmond was having children at 17-20.
All confusing as usual – but at least another lead.
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Thanks for sharing this interesting find. Washington certainly did know the Rices of Long Marsh in Frederick County, Virginia. It would be interesting to find that Patrick Rice’s son John spent time in the Fort Pitt area. I think that’s certainly possible, though I’m pretty sure he died in Frederick County in or by May 1785. Alternatively, Patrick may have had a brother John? I think the best way for us to sort this John out is to see what land records for the Fort Pitt area may tell us.
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To sort of tie some of this together from previous discussions.
This record book from the Yohogania Court in 1778 provides 2 descriptions of the exact same case with the same persons describing their testimony to a marriage. On page 213 the name is listed as Edward Rice, and on page 120 the name is listed as Edmund Rice. Same case, same people, the only difference being the interchanging Edward/Edmund. John Stephenson also testified along with Edmund/Edward. A couple of pages down places a William Rice in these early court records and I believe that to be my EKA’s father and possibly Edmund’s son. Or an untraced son, somehow, of these Frederick County Rices line.
https://www.google.com/books/edition/Minute_Book_of_the_Virginia_Court_Held_f/X-DSd4cJmC4C?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=Rice
I will have to dig up all my sourcing, apologies I don’t have it on hand but here’s what I am confident of through records:
Second West Augusta Company
One hundred enlisted men raised in the West Augusta District.
Capt. John Stephenson
Lt. Robert Beall
Lt. Edward Rice <——- This is Patrick Rice's son, Edmund/Edward Rice
Ens. Simon Morgan
https://allthingsliberty.com/2021/03/virginias-independent-frontier-companies-part-1-of-2/
On April 23, 1773 Edward/Edmund Rice of John Stephens purchased 350 acres south of Fort Pitt in 1773/Tyrone Township. I believe that can be tied with his wife Ruth's release of the Frederick County land in 1773. On Nov 19, 1785 he sold that 350 acres to a Jacob Stewart.
He owned slaves. He served as J.P. in Tyrone Township in 1780 with Providence Mounts (show up together in other records) .
I believe shortly after he sold his land in 1785 Edmund/Edward ventured on to Kentucky and he is the mid-80s aged Edmund Rice who died in Jefferson County in 1821. Everything I have compiled points to this and I haven't found anything to disprove any of it yet.
–
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Thank you for this valuable information. I find frequently as I work in “old” records that the given names Edward and Edmund/Edmond get confused. Men named Edmund often show up as Edwards when officials wrote their names down, and vice versa. I suspect you have, indeed, found an Edmund Rice who got mislabeled as Edward in some records. And as you suggest, I suspect he and William do belong to the Frederick County, Virginia, family, but how so is the big question. The name John Stephenson is definitely a clue here, since it’s found in records of the kinship network of the Rices of Frederick County.
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