What We Can Establish about Elizabeth’s Life (and the Life of William McCormick)
If Elizabeth was George and Elizabeth Brooks Rice’s second child, she would have been born after 1769, the year that can be established as her older sister Ruth’s year of birth. We can also fairly solidly infer that she was born prior to around 1777, since we know from several pieces of evidence that Elizabeth had a son whose name appears as John in some records and Jehu in others, and who was likely named John Jehu Rice, who was born in 1793 or 1794. The 1850 federal census gives John Jehu Rice’s age as 56 (so born in 1794), and the 1860 federal census shows him as aged 67 (pointing to a birth year of 1793).[3] Jehu was living in Greenup County, Kentucky, when both censuses were taken.
To have borne a child in 1793, Elizabeth Rice would almost certainly have been born by or prior to 1777. If she was the next child of George and Elizabeth Brooks Rice following Ruth, I’d be inclined to think she was born between 1770 and 1775 — perhaps closer to the latter year than to the former. Though I have not found their marriage record, a number of sources state that William McCormick married Elizabeth Rice in Frederick County, Virginia, on 10 January 1795.[4] But if William and Elizabeth married in January 1795, then I wonder why the 20 April 1796 will of Elizabeth’s brother Edmund Rice in Frederick County, discussed in a previous posting, refers to her as “my sister Betty Rice” as he bequeaths his property to her son John Rice.[5] Perhaps because she was Betty Rice at the time her son was born, and Edmund was bequeathing his property to his nephew John Rice, identifying him as Betty’s son?
I have not done exhaustive research to establish a probable year of birth for William McCormick. A number of researchers of the McCormick family appear to think that he was born in or around 1768, though I haven’t seen any source cited to substantiate that claim.[6] I do note that William McCormick first appears on the tax list in Frederick County in 1789, and this may well support a birth year around 1768. If that year of birth is correct, then it appears also to fit well with a probable birthdate of 1770-1775 for Elizabeth Rice.
As I’ve just noted and as was discussed in a previous posting, the 20 April 1796 Frederick County, Virginia, will of Elizabeth’s brother Edmund Rice states that Edmund was bequeathing all the landed property in Frederick County to which he was entitled by his father’s will and all of his landed property in Kentucky and elsewhere to John Rice, son of his sister Betty Rice. William McCormick witnessed this will.[7]
We know from the August 1802 list of children of George Rice found in the case file of the Province McCormick’s chancery case against George’s executors that William McCormick and Elizabeth Rice were definitely married by that date, since the list enumerates “William McCormick and Betsey his wife.”[8]
We also know that Elizabeth had died by 15 April 1808, when Bartholomew Smith’s complaint initiating his suit against George’s executors and heirs states that Betsy had married William McCormick and was now dead.[9] This document also gives us valuable information about Elizabeth’s children by William McCormick: it names them as Province, Polly, Harriet, and Anna, all with surname McCormick, and tells us that all are under 21 in April 1808. We also learn from this case file that up to 2 March 1808, George Rice’s executor James McDonald had been guardian of Elizabeth Rice’s son John Jehu Rice, and that McDonald had died by 2 March 1808, when William McCormick became administrator of George Rice’s estate and guardian of Jehu. Note that James McDonald became sole executor of George’s estate following the death of his co-executor Micajah Roach in Bardstown, Kentucky, in June 1805.
In addition, William McCormick’s 29 September 1808 answer to Smith in the same case file affirms that he is now guardian of Jehu Rice and of his four children by Elizabeth Rice. Then it adds, “the sd Jehu Rice being the son of Betsy Rice now decd who was a Daughter of George Rice.”
The complaint filed by Elizabeth Brooks Rice in May 1810 as she filed suit in Augusta County chancery court against her son-in-law William McCormick adds other pieces of important information.[10] Elizabeth tells the court that she moved in 1804 or 1805 to live with the family of William McCormick, who was apparently living on land contiguous to hers that he had acquired from George Rice’s estate. Elizabeth claimed that when she made this move, she had entered an agreement with William and his brother Province McCormick to manage her plantation and to share its profits with her, but they had reneged on the promise. Note that if Elizabeth Rice McCormick had died by 1804-5, the four small children she left motherless would have needed their grandmother’s guidance and attention, and that may have been a motive for Elizabeth Brooks Rice’s move to live with the McCormick family at this time. William McCormick would remarry, but not until 21 November 1812, when he married Mary, a Widow McDonald in Frederick County (was Mary the widow of James McDonald?).[11]
In another previous posting, we learn that as he was administering the estate of George Rice following the deaths of executors James McDonald and Micajah Roach, William McCormick paid shares of the estate to various heirs in August 1809. The accounting of those shares appears in an estate return McCormick filed in Frederick County on 3 August 1812.[12] This states that William McCormick had paid a share of George Rice’s estate to his children in August 1809, their mother being deceased.
Finally, as we review previous postings for information about Elizabeth Rice and husband William McCormick, we find that the 12 August 1816 quitclaim deed the heirs of Edmund Rice made to Jehu Rice, as they relinquished interest in Edmund’s Kentucky landholdings, states that William McCormick was acting on behalf of his deceased wife Elizabeth Rice as he quitclaimed her (and his) interest in Edmund’s estate.[13]
Various published sources also provide valuable information about William McCormick and his family. According to J.E. Norris, who gives William’s date of death as 29 July 1824, he and his brothers lived in the part of Frederick County that later became Clarke County and were “men of great strength of character, energetic and enterprising,” all with valuable farms.[14]
William McCormick’s homeplace in what is now Clarke County was called Upton, according to Rose M.E. MacDonald.[15] MacDonald indicates that Upton was built on part of a Lord Fairfax grant to William’s father-in-law Patrick Rice about 1800. Photos of Upton in 1958 and in 1996 are available for viewing at the website of the Clarke County Historical Association. This source states that Upton was built in the last quarter of the 18th century, originally as a log house and later covered by imitation brick, with a two-story, two-bay addition to the original house as an ell on its back.
Lorraine Myers, Stuart Brown, and Eileen Chappel tell us that William McCormick died either on 29 July 1824 or 31 March 1819, and married (1st) Elizabeth Rice, whose father was a captain in the Revolution, and (2nd) Mrs. McDonald of Princeton.[16] He owned a landed estate near what is now West Virginia. By his first marriage, he had one son and three daughters, this source indicates.
History of Virginia’s Virginia Biography volume states the following about William McCormick:[17]
William McCormick, a planter and slaveholder, owned a landed estate about four miles south of Summit Point and just inside the limits of the present Clarke County. January 10, 1795, he wedded Elizabeth Rice, whose father was a captain in the Revolution.
In contrast to J.E. Norris, who gives William McCormick’s death date as 7 July 1824, Hugh Milton McIlhany states that McCormick died 31 March 1819.[18] I am not sure how to account for the discrepancy in death dates or which of the two dates is accurate.
Note that History of Virginia‘s information about William McCormick and Elizabeth Rice’s children is not correct in key respects. Their daughter Ann married William Lindsey Pogue, not a Biggs. It was Ann’s half-brother John Jehu Rice who married a Biggs. And Ann’s sister Mary married John Culver, not Henry Pogue.
The Children of William McCormick and Elizabeth Rice
If Bartholomew Smith’s 15 April 1808 complaint initiating his suit against George Rice’s executors and heirs cited above names William McCormick and Elizabeth Rice’s children by order of birth, then these children fall into the following order by birth: Province, Polly, Harriet, and Anna. Province’s date of birth is known with certainty: it was 10 September 1799. As we’ll see in a moment, a number of sources state that Harriet was born 22 June 1801. If Ann was born after Harriet, then her likely birth year would seem to have been around 1802 or 1803.
However, the 1958 lineage book of the Cincinnati chapter of the Ohio Society of Sons of the American Revolution gives Ann a birth year of 1797.[19] If this is correct information (and I see no proof of it in this source), then Ann may have been the first-born of the children of William McCormick and Elizabeth Rice. Robert Bell Woodworth’s history of the Poage family states, however, that Ann was born 16 January 1801.[20] If that’s a correct birthdate, note that it conflicts with the 22 June 1801 birthdate other researchers have assigned to Ann’s sister Harriet.
Ann McCormick married William Lindsey Pogue (the surname is also spelled Poage), son of Robert Poage, first surveyor-general of Greenup County, Kentucky, and Robert’s wife Jane Hopkins.[21] I find two different dates and places of marriage for William L. Pogue and Ann McCormick: 12 September 1822, Cabell County, Virginia (now West Virginia); and 8 November 1824, Greenup County, Kentucky.[22] Ann McCormick Pogue had died prior to October 1839, when William Lindsey Pogue married Caroline Ann Roach in Greenup County, Kentucky. As noted in a previous posting, Caroline was a daughter of Griffin T. Roach and Mary Wingate; Griffin was a first cousin of Ann McCormick, a son of Ann’s aunt Ruth Rice Roach.
As another previous posting indicates, in May 1858 in Lewis County, Kentucky, William L. Pogue filed for divorce from wife Caroline Ann, claiming she had committed adultery. According to Christiane Station at her well-researched Pogue Family in Black and White website and to Daniel Layman at his Layman family tree at Ancestry, William Lindsey Pogue died in Ashland, Kentucky, on 31 March 1881. Daniel Layman says that Caroline Ann died in California in 1905. Christiane Station’s website has valuable information about William L. Pogue, including that he sold a large tract of land in Greenup County, Kentucky, to the Means and Russell Iron Company in 1826 and in the same year formed a company with others to build Bellefonte Furnace. In 1841, this partnership was ended and George Poage, William’s relative, bought the furnace for $36,666.66. Station also states that in 1829, William L. Pogue was among a group who built the Amanda furnace at Russell, Greenup County, Kentucky. William named the furnace for his daughter Amanda. Daniel Layman’s tree indicates that letters of William L. Pogue’s mother Jane and a census listing show that he had a legal education at an institution of higher learning, though it appears he did not practice law.
Province McCormick, son of William and Elizabeth Rice McCormick, was born 10 September 1799 in Frederick County, Virginia, and died 4 July 1873 at Berryville, Clarke County, Virginia. Province was an honor graduate at Princeton in 1820.[23] He married Margaretta Holmes Moss, daughter of William Moss, on 10 November 1831. Margaretta was born 28 September 1812 and died 26 November 1865. Province was the commonwealth attorney for Clarke County from 1840 to 1866.[24] His obituary in Alexandria Gazette, 21 July 1873, describes him as “the leading citizen of Clarke County” and notes his influence in the county’s affairs.[25] Province and wife Margaretta are buried in Grace Episcopal cemetery at Berryville, Virginia.[26]
Mary McCormick married John Culver on 2 September 1817 in Frederick County, Virginia.[27] When William Lindsey Pogue and his business partners started the Amanda furnace near Russell, Kentucky, in 1829, as mentioned above, John Culver was among the partners.[28] John Culver died in 1858 at Catlettsburg in Boyd County.[29] The 1850 federal census, showing John enumerated in Greenup County, indicates that he was born in 1790 in Maryland.[30] This census entry does not show him with wife Mary, but with his later wife Charlotte Welkins, whom he married at Nashua, New Hampshire, on 10 August 1838.[31] It appears that Mary had died prior to August 1838.
Harriet Melvina/Malvina McCormick was born 22 June 1801 in Frederick County, Virginia, and died 4 August 1856 at Hampton, near Berryville, Clarke County, Virginia. Harriet married Alexander Ross Milton on 21 April 1819 in Frederick County. Alexander was born 30 April 1798 at Milton Valley in Frederick County and died at Hampton on 4 February 1862.[32]
As noted above, prior to marrying William McCormick, Elizabeth Rice had a son John Jehu Rice, whose birth year is indicated as either 1793 or 1794 on the 1850 and 1860 federal census.[33] Information about John Jehu is in this previous posting. In addition to what that posting tells us, John Jehu married Mary Elizabeth Biggs, daughter of Andrew Biggs and Judith Robertson in Greenup County, Kentucky, on 11 August 1821.[34] The bible register of Jehu Rice records that this marriage occurred “at the mouth of Big Sandy” with Rev. John Young officiating.
As a previous posting notes, after I published this posting about Elizabeth Rice and William McCormick in 2021, in July 2022, Margene Scott sent me two very valuable transcripts of Rice family bible registers. Margene owns the bible of Jehu Rice’s son George. Tucked into that bible are transcripts made in April 1898 by John Seaton, transcripts of the bible register of Patrick Rice and of his grandson Jehu Rice. These transcripts were made at the home of Adolphus Lafayette Reid, grandson of Ruth Rice and Micajah Roach, in Greenup, Kentucky. In 1898, he owned the Patrick Rice and Jehu Rice bibles, whose present whereabouts are not known. A digital image of the transcript of Jehu Rice’s bible register is at the head of this posting.
Jehu Rice’s bible register states that his wife Mary Elizabeth died 4 July 1842 in the 43rd year of her life. In 1850, the federal census shows John Rice living in the household of his brother-in-law R.M. Biggs.[35] John Jehu appears to have died between 1860 and 1870, probably in Greenup County, Kentucky, where he appears on the federal census in 1870.
Jehu Rice’s bible register gives the names and birthdates of Jehu’s eight children by Mary Elizabeth Biggs, and death dates of several of those children. Their names are as follows (all surname Rice): Martha Gibbs; Edmund; Mary Elizabeth; George; Amanda Biggs; Ann McCormack; Judith Robertson; and Sarah Elizabeth Wilkins. For the birthdates of these Rice children, please see the bible transcript above.
In my next posting, I’ll share what I know about George Rice and Elizabeth Brooks Rice’s daughter Mary and husband Joshua Wilson, who were already featured in a previous posting, and about George and Elizabeth’s son George.
[1] Province McCormick vs. Exrs. of George Rice, Augusta County, Virginia, Chancery Court 1808-143, case 10.
[2] Bartholomew Smith vs. Exrs. of George Rice, Augusta County, Virginia, Chancery Court 1810-127, case 49.
[3] 1850 federal census, Greenup County, Kentucky, district 2, p. 163b (dwelling and family 97/97, 27 July), household of R.M. Biggs; and 1860 federal census, Greenup County, Kentucky, Oldtown, p. 775 (dwelling and household 520, 13 July).
[4] See History of Virginia, vol. 5: Virginia Biography (Chicago: American Historical Society, 1924), p. 317; D.E. Payne and M.N. Kangas, comp., Frederick County, Virginia, Wills & Administrations, 1795-1816 (Baltimore: Geneal. Publ. Col, 1983), p. 16, citing “Fdk. Co. Marrs.”; and Jordan Dodd, comp., Virginia Marriages to 1800, at Ancestry’s database Virginia, U.S., Compiled Marriages, 1660-1800.
[5] Frederick County, Virginia, Will Bk. 6, pp. 281-2.
[6] See, e.g., J. Michael Frost’s Frost, Gilchrist and Related Families website.
[7] See supra, n. 5.
[8] See supra, n. 1.
[9] See supra, n. 2.
[10] Elizabeth Rice v. William McCormick, Augusta County, Virginia, Chancery Court 1810-44, case 46.
[11] See Lorraine F. Myers, Stuart E. Brown, and Eileen M. Chappel, Some Old Families of Clarke County, Virginia (Berryville: Virginia Book Co., 1994).
[12] Frederick County, Virginia, Will Bk. 9, pp. 158-9.
[13] Frederick County, Virginia, Deed Bk. 39, pp. 150-5. This deed is also recorded in Kentucky Court of Appeals Deed Bk. R, pp. 161f, with an abstract in Hattie M. Scott, “Heirs in Court of Appeals Deeds,” Register of Kentucky State Historical Society 42,140 (July, 1944), p. 256.
[14]J.E. Norris, History of The Lower Shenandoah Valley: Counties Frederick, Berkeley, Jefferson, And Clarke, etc. (Chicago: A. Warner, 1890), pp. 627-8.
[15] Rose E. MacDonald, Clarke County, a Daughter of Frederick: A History of Early Families and Homes (Berryville: Blue Ridge Press, 1943), p. 53.
[16] Myers, Brown, and Chappel, Some Old Families of Clarke County, Virginia.
[17] History of Virginia, vol. 5: Virginia Biography, p. 317.
[18] Hugh Milton McIlhany, Some Virginia Families Being Genealogies of the Kinney, Stribling, Trout, McIlhany, Milton, Rogers, Tate, Snickers, Taylor, McCormick, and Other Families of Virginia (Staunton, Virginia: Stoneburner & Prufer, 1903), p. 224.
[19] Ohio State Society of Sons of the American Revolution, Cincinnati Chapter, The 1958 Lineage Book of the Cincinnati Chapter, Ohio Society, Sons of the American Revolution, p. 206. The information is extracted from Province M. Pogue’s 5 June 1930 application for membership. The same date of birth for Ann appears in Thomas Lightfoot Pogue’s 1 November 1929 application for SAR membership in the Cincinnati Chapter.
[20] Robert Bell Woodworth, comp., The Descendants of Robert and John Poage, Pioneer Settlers in Augusta County, Va., etc., vol. 1 (Staunton, Virginia: McClure, 1954), p. 139.
[21] See Ella Warren Harrison, A Chapter of Hopkins Genealogy, 1735-1905 (Chicago: Lakeside, 1905), p. 284, stating that William Lindsey Poage, son of Robert Poage and Jane Hopkins, married 1) Ann McCormick and 2) Caroline Roach (name given as Beach here). On Robert Pogue, first surveyor general of Greenup County, see E. Polk Johnson, A History of Kentucky and Kentuckians (Lewis Publ. Co., 1912), vol. 3, p. 1307.
[22] Jordan Dodd, comp., Early American Marriages: Virginia to 1850, at Ancestry’s database U.S., Compiled Marriages, 1740-1850; and Dodd, comp., Kentucky Marriages to 1850, at Ancestry’s database Kentucky, U.S., Compiled Marriages, 1802-1850. Note that Woodworth, ibid., gives yet another date for the marriage: 22 December 1822.
[23] See MacDonald, Clarke County, a Daughter of Frederick, p. 53.
[24] For biographical information about Province McCormick, see Thomas Condit Miller, West Virginia and Its People, vol. 3 (Chicago: Lewis, 1913), pp. 871-2; Lyon Gardiner Tyler, Men of Mark in Virginia: Ideals of American Life; A Collection of Biographies of the Leading Men in the State, vol. 3 (Washington, DC: Men of Mark, 1907), p. 241; McIlhany, Some Virginia Families, p. 224; Norris, History of The Lower Shenandoah Valley, p. 628; and Lyon Gardiner Tyler, Encyclopedia of Virginia Biography, vol. 3 (Chicago: Lewis, 1915), pp. 323-4.
[25] Province’s obituary is in Alexandria Gazette (11 July 1873), p. 2, col. 5; and (23 July 1873), p. 2, col. 5.
[26] See Province McCormick’s Find a Grave memorial page, Grace Episcopal cemetery, Berryville, Clarke County, Virginia, created by Jeanie, with a tombstone photo by Krista Al Qirim.
[27] See Jordan Dodd, comp., Early American Marriages: Virginia to 1850, at Ancestry’s database Virginia, U.S., Compiled Marriages, 1740-1850.
[28] See Eugene B. Willard, Daniel Webster Williams, George Ott Newman, and Charles Boardman Taylor, A Standard History of the Hanging Rock Iron Region of Ohio, vol. 1 (Chicago: Lewis, 1916), p. 56; and historical marker for Amanda Furnace, Greenup County, Kentucky, at the Historical Marker Database website, with a photo by J.J. Paris, September 2018.
[29] See Teresa Martin Klaiber, “Slavery in Boyd County, Kentucky,” at the Rising Tide blog.
[30] 1850 federal census, Greenup County, Kentucky, district 2, p. 192B (dwelling and family 505, 24 August).
[31] See the original marriage record from New England Historical Genealogical Society, New Hampshire Bureau of Vital Records, Concord, New Hampshire; digitized at Ancestry in its database New Hampshire, U.S., Marriage and Divorce Records, 1659-1947. The marriage record states that John lived at Greensburg, Kentucky, when he married Charlotte Welkin.
[32] Biographical information is in Justin Glenn, The Washingtons: A Family History, vol. 1: Seven Generations of the Presidential Branch (El Dorado Hills, California: Savas, 2014), unpaginated (#1581); Hugh M. Milton, The Milton Genealogy, 1636-1960 (priv. publ. 1960), p. 29, McIlhany, Some Virginia Families, p. 205; and Myers, Brown, and Chappel, Some Old Families of Clarke County, Virginia.
[33] See supra, n. 3.
[34] See Jordan Dodd, comp., Kentucky Marriages to 1850, at Ancestry’s database Kentucky, U.S., Compiled Marriages, 1802-1850.
[35] See supra, n. 3.
BEGATS AND BEQUEATHALS 
I find this document very interesting. I am looking for the parents of a George Rice from Big Sandy, Kentucky who married Easter Hurst in 1856
Do you have more information about the George Rice (son of Jehu Rice and Elizabeth Biggs) on this record?
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Thank you for your comment. I’m glad this was of interest. My records indicate that George Rice, son of John Jehu Rice and Mary Elizabeth Biggs, married Catherine Fritz in Greenup County, Kentucky, on 26 December 1854 and died 16 February 1917 at York in Athens County, Ohio.
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Is there a possibility that this Jehu/John Rice is the John Rice, aged 5 years in 1798 apprenticed to an Edmund Rice to learn to be a farmer?
https://www.google.com/books/edition/Early_Kentucky_Settlers/whcQpqnUCEcC?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=Edmund%20Rice
And if so, does this coincide with the Uncle Edmund Rice who left Ky/VA lands to a John Rice, and the Edmund Rice mentioned in same book above who left the balance of his estate to “adopted son John Rice, whom he raised from Infancy.”
I am trying to understand the tangle of John Rices and if this Edmund Rice could be Edmund, son of Patrick, who possibly could have immigrated to Jefferson County KY via SW PA at an early date.
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If the John Rice apprenticed to Edmund Rice in 1798 in Jefferson County, Kentucky, is John Jehu, son of Elizabeth Rice, then I wonder who the Edmund Rice living in Jefferson County, Kentucky, in 1798 might be. This Edmund can’t be the Edmund Rice who was the uncle of John Jehu and who named John Jehu in his will, since that Edmund died in 1797 in Frederick County, Virginia. Your supposition that the Edmund to whom John Jehu was apprenticed in Jefferson County, Kentucky, in 1798 was Edmund, son of Patrick, seems worth pursuing, since researchers don’t seem to know where that Edmund Rice died. However, because Patrick’s son Edmund was born in 1737, this Edmund in Kentucky in 1798 would have been a man advanced in years, especially since he died in 1821.
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While the age doesn’t match up with what is listed as Edmund Rice is the bible transcription the Edmund Rice who died in 1821 in Jefferson County was 87 years old according to
Register of Kentucky State Historical Society
Vol. 39, No. 127 (April, 1941), pp. 116-137 (22 pages)
Published By: Kentucky Historical Society
https://www.jstor.org/stable/23371681
I’m not sure what the discrepancy means because if he was 87 as this states he would’ve been born around 1734 not 1737.
It is mostly me trying to hamfist what I know about my EKA’s Grandfather who “was a native of the old dominion and arrived in Kentucky at a later date” – Later date being after my EKA’s father William arrived. The evidence I have is that William was in Louisville very early (about 1780) Edmund Rice appears in the 1789 Jefferson County Tax List and a couple of pages later is an Edward Rice. A couple of pages after that you find my William Rice and William Rice Jr, my EKA’s brother and father.
I’ve also found more links that provide strong evidence Edmund Rice in 1772 Tyrone Township and early SW PA/NW VA records is George’s brother Edmund.
Names like John Stephenson, Thomas Gist, Isaac Meeson, and Edmund Lindsey show up as either neighbors or in records with George Rice/Edmund Rice/Patrick Rice on early road crews and those same names seem to have migrated the same time with Edmund Rice and show up in SW PA records/tax lists/court records. An Edward and an Edmund show up in these old records(like the Jefferson County 1789 Tax list), which makes me think Edward Rice could be Edmund’s son?
Click to access timeline_edmund.pdf
I’ve also found another record I’ll have to dig up that says Edmund Rice was a Captain in the Westmoreland County militia – When he is mentioned as providing testimony/intelligence regarding interstate militias of PA and VA skirmishing over land rights.
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I think the death notice for the Edmund Rice who died in 1821 in Jefferson County, Kentucky, could have gotten his age a bit wrong. If so, then it seems possible to me that this Edmund could be the son of Patrick Rice and Elizabeth Decow. I have never been able to track Patrick and Elizabeth’s son Edmund beyond Frederick County, Virginia. Did the Edmund Rice who died in Jefferson County, Kentucky, in 1821 leave estate records? Have you found other records for Edmund in either Jefferson County or in Tyrone township? As you know, the recurrence of given names in this Rice family makes it very hard to sort the many people with the same given name.
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I have not located any estate records.
I have found an Edmund Rice and an Edward Rice in the 1789 Jefferson County Tax Lists.
I’ve also found 2 other Court Records for an Edmund Rice when in Southwest PA, (also included are some other Frederick County, VA names and people mentioned in early Road crew records of Edmund Rice and George Rice in Frederick County VA)
The SW PA records are confusing because of the county boundaries moving around and the records themselves are so sparse. But there’s an Edward Rice, and an Edmund Rice mentioned in a few records in SW PA at the time. A few threads to try to pull, however, and to try to read between the lines.
Another question would be if this is Edmund Rice, son of Patrick who inherited along with his brothers 1333 1/3 acres of Land in Kentucky what happened with all of that? You’re also left wondering how well any of these people knew each other? How often did people lose communication when they traveled out to the frontier, never to be heard from again? etc. I don’t know.
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I’m pretty sure the Rice kinship network kept in close touch with each other after family members went from Virginia to Kentucky — and probably after some went to Pennsylvania from Virginia. If the Edmund dying in Jefferson County, Kentucky, was in Pennsylvia at some point, do you think he went there from Frederick County, Virginia, and then went to Kentucky?
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That is my guess if I were to invent a scenario based on bits of information, albeit incomplete.
We know Edmund served militia in Virginia, and we know that other Frederick County Virginia neighbors migrated to SW PA as well.
One would be a John Stephenson. Admittedly I haven’t done a lot of cross referencing to quite figure out if there are the exact same people and I don’t even know if that is possible.
However, a John Stephenson served with a George Rice in the Frederick County militia during the French and Indian war and a John Stephenson and Edmund Rice exists in a court record for Yohogania County PA/VA in disputed PA/VA Territory together in 1778. A John Stephenson also is on the 1772 Tyrone Township tax list with an Edmund Rice, along with Zachariah Connell who married Rebecca Rice.
As well, an Edmund Lindsey and Edmund Lindsey Jr are both listed in Long Marsh Surveys with George Rice, and an Edmund Lindsey shows up with an Edmund Rice in early SW PA land records in 1778 where the both appraised the estate of a John Vance.
Link:
https://www.google.com/books/edition/Minute_Book_of_the_Virginia_Court_Held_f/X-DSd4cJmC4C?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=%20%22Edmund%20Rice%22
This would also fit with the Edmund Rice who testified as part of the Westmoreland County, PA militia regarding PA and VA militia’s skirmishing over territory rights.
I haven’t found any primary sourcing for any of the information in the book “Pastor John Corbly” but if it is to be believed they traveled from Virginia after 1768 to the area via Nemacolins path which ends up right on the Monogahela in the area due scout land for their service in the French and Indian wars — They supposedly traveled with Swans, Richard Chenoweth family, a “John Rice Jr” family and Van Metres among others. Those families all existed in SW PA before migrating to Kentucky. RIchard Chenoweth specifically was an original lot holder in Louisville (along with a William Rice, my EKA’s suspected father William) — Chenoweth also owned land on Six Mile Creek in current Henry County KY which is was my 3x Great Grandfather and brother lived.
Then of course we know George Rice traveled the Frontier with Cresswell, and had been in and around Fort Duquesne/Fort Pitt at the time, where he “visited his brother South of Fort Pitt” — An Edward Rice is mentioned in that journal as well, which could very well be the Edward Rice who ends up in Jefferson County KY the next page after an Edmund Rice in the 1789 Tax List.
How it all ties to my William Rice and who exactly he is, who knows. Him and my EKA’s brother were with some of the very first pioneers in Kentucky according to William M Rice’s eulogy when he died in Henry County in 1829:
Link: https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/220709785/william-m-rice
“Both sire and son were early emigrants to Jefferson County, Kentucky. They shared alike in the hazards and privations of our first settlements. I was there too, and can well attest the gallantry of the men and women of that day”
And I believe I’ve mentioned that my Rice surname Y DNA is a 37/37 biomarker match with a direct relative of “John Rice Jr” who supposedly founded Rice’s Landing PA South of Fort Pitt on the Monongahela, which suggests a very close relationship with my EKA’s father, William Rice.
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I continue to think that the answer — or one answer — to the questions you’re raising lies in the Virginia land grants made in southwest Pennsylvania after the Revolution. If you could find the Virginia grant or grants given to members of the Rice family for the original tract that became Rice’s Landing, you might have answers to a number of your questions, including which family member or members got the grant, why it was given, and when the Rice family arrived there.
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It definitely would be a start but I’ve yet to find anything close to the original unfortunately.
I’ve also seen conflicting information – Some say 1780 as the date, others 1786. If it was 1786 it would have to be a different John Rice because I was under the assumption John Rice died in 1785.
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You’re right that the will of John Rice, son of Patrick Rice and Elizabeth Decow/Decou, was probated in Frederick County, Virginia, 3 May 1785.
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I’ve also discovered that an Edmund Lindsey and Edmund Rice both served in the same Virginia regiment during the revolution on multiple records in 1777.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QSQ-G9WB-CRNR?i=307&cc=2068326&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AQL6Y-L44F
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Yes, the given name Edmund ran in Frederick County, Virginia, Lindsey families of the Long Marsh who were connected by marriage to the Rice family.
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I’m not sure if I had ever seen the Lindsey/Rice marriage record.
However I’ve recently discovered as well that John Stephenson, Edmund Lindsey, and Edmund Rice are mentioned together regarding the Westmoreland County militia and VA/PA skirmishes.
“Contains a letter from Governor Patrick Henry to Benjamin Harrison, Speaker of the House of Delegates, regarding the unsettled state of the boundary line between Virginia & Pennsylvania. The Governor encloses six depositions taken on 11 November 1778 from various citizens of Westmoreland County, Pennsylvania. Deponents include William Crew, Col. James Smith, Col. Providence Mounts, Edmund Lindsay, Samuel Wells, & Edmond Rice. The deponents were taken prisoner in Pittsburgh by Capt. Thomas Bays and Capt. John Harness on the orders of Col. John Stephenson. The deponents reported that they were bound, beaten, and tried by court martial for mutiny, desertion, and disobedience to the orders of the Virginia Militia.”
https://lva.primo.exlibrisgroup.com/discovery/fulldisplay?docid=alma990005026440205756&context=L&vid=01LVA_INST:01LVA&lang=en&search_scope=MyInstitution_noAER&adaptor=Local%20Search%20Engine&tab=LibraryCatalog&query=any,contains,Edmund%20Rice&offset=0
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I may have mentioned this to you previously, but in case I haven’t thought to do so: Susan Grabek, who administers DNA group 2 in the international Lindsay surname DNA project, has done years of valuable research on that set of Lindseys, the so-called Long Marsh Lindseys of Frederick Co., who had marriage ties to the Rice family. Her website for group 2 Lindseys is full of outstanding information, including Rice information. It’s here: https://mimpickles.com/lindsey/group2/
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Great – I had not scene that page specifically previously so thank you for sharing. It looks like I had ran across one of her documents previously that she had compiled that links Stephenson/Edmund Rice/Fort Pitt Lindseys and their travel from Frederick County.
The more threads I pull the more it makes sense that Edmund Rice could have been my Jonathan B Rice’s Grandfather, but always leads to more questions without any obvious answers. Not to mention the whole Patrick Rice/John Rice Sr/ John Rice Jr line that is almost certainly incorrect that is all over the genealogy web. Hopefully as more Rices join the Y DNA project the answers will fill in.
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Another interesting little connection:
1792 – 1803 Selected Abstracts from Logan County, KY Deed Book A1, 1792-1802
p.138-139 2 Feb 1795 Joseph Meason received from Thomas Meason father of William Meason for 30Ł Deed of Gift …. 200 a. Witnesses: Barnett, Thomas Comstock, Wm Morgan Land granted to Edmond Rice, assignee of George Rice assignee of Richard Archer by Patrick Henry, Governor of Virginia.
Unsure which Measons these are exactly but they’re related. But Edmond Rice was neighbors with Isaac Meeson,stone mason, and another Frederick County VA immigrant in very early SW PA/NW VA and testified in a court case about Isaac Meeson’s marriage in 1777.
Isaac’s brother was Lt Thomas Meeson, who was in the Westmoreland Militia. https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Meason-20 – An Edmund Rice was also in the Westmoreland Militia.
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That’s a good find, the Meeson connection to Edmond Rice and then the recorrence of that surname in this Logan County, Kentucky, deed. Thanks for sharing it.
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https://www.8thvirginia.com/the-soldiers.html
Capt. John Stephenson (December 10, 1775-September, 1776) (Posts: 3/17/21, 3/23/22)
1st Lieut. Robert Beall (December 10, 1775-September, 1776) (Post: 3/17/21)
[2nd Lieut. Simon Girty]*
2nd Lieut. Edward Rice (?-February, 1776) (Post: 3/17/21)
[2nd Lieut. Simon Morgan]**
Ens. Simon Morgan (Post: 3/17/21)**
[Ens. Benjamin Biggs]**
All but convinced this is Edward/Edmund Rice, son of Patrick. He and his family and neighbors show up together a good amount in early records. Tracks with the multiple John Stephenson/Edmund Rice connections above, and the area tracks.
West Augusta discrect bordered the Ohio and contain parts of modern day WV/VA and SW PA.
John Stephenson and Edmund Rice along with Thomas Gist (another Frederick Co immigrant) also testified regarding an unofficialized marriage of 2 others in 1772 in SW PA court records.
An odd hiccup is the Edmund Rice who was beaten/imprisoned with other contemporaries on the order of a Colonel John Stephenson for being disloyal to Virginia and were forced to fight for the Virginia Militia. I can see a scenario where some of these early pioneers loyalities changed as they moved and if it is the same John Stephenson maybe Edmund Rice would have been treated like a traitor.
This spreadsheet someone made has been extremely helpful to me placing Rice’s/Lindsey and other Frederick County VA peers together in SW PA at athe time: https://mimpickles.com/lindsey/fort_pitt/timeline_david.pdf
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Thank you for this valuable information. The helpful spreadsheet is from Susan Grabek’s website for the DNA group called Group 2, the “Long Marsh Lindseys,” in the international Lindsay DNA study. Susan heads that group and has spent years researching that set of Lindseys and related families including the Rices.
I think you may well be right that the Edward Rice who was a 2nd lieutenant in the 8th Virginia was Edmund, son of Patrick Rice. As you know, Edmond/Edmund often gets read as Edward when people transcribe records. I appreciate your ongoing good research on this family, and your willingness to share your findings.
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I hope that there is someone that might come across a connection I haven’t seen or made. The undeniable Y DNA connections make it easier. I’m pretty confident I know who my 4x Grandfather’s father was based on tracking the Y DNA with available historical information that thankfully mentioned names.
But none of it ultimately solves this widely shared, obviously wrong, “John Rice Jr” “John Rice Sr 1730-1785” problem in every online genealogy I’ve seen.
As we’ve previously discussed Patrick Rice’s letter back to Isaac Decow discusses his wife having a child that matches up with the birth date of John Rice in 1744-5?, but for some reason people online think that was the child of “John Rice Sr” -1730-1785 which doesn’t much make sense.
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I will keep trying to find information to help sort these Rices out. About the John Rice born in 1730: I find no such person in the family of Patrick Rice. Since we know for sure from the family bible record that Patrick married Elizabeth Decow on 3 December 1734 and that they had, among other children, a son John born 11 August 1744, how does a John Rice born in 1730 fit into thise family picture? As you say, this makes little sense. And where are any documents supporting the existence of that John born in 1744?
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There are a lot of unverified or seemingly unsourced claims in the book “Pastor John Corbly”
But one that seems to be sourced and legitimate is Pastor Corbly’s release of his land to a John Rice in 1773 in Hampshire Co VA, now modern day WV –D~ED BooK III. Page 137, Hampshire Co., W. Va
A lot of avenues I have yet to explore – but there are connections to the other witnesses on that record and Edmund son of Patrick.
Another connection is the name William Cracraft as a witness. A John Rice and William Cracraft, along with a couple of Bowell’s show up in this supposed record of
“Early Settlers, Petition for a New State:
Fayette, Washington & Greene Cos, PA
PETITION FOR A NEW STATE”
-From an original petition for a new state located in the Library of Congress.No date on document.Papers of the Continental Congress No 48, Folios 251-6, pages 89-96.
https://www.genealogy.com/forum/regional/states/topics/va/36668/
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I suppose what’s not clear to me is why some people — or I may be misunderstanding? — want to think that John Rice in the records you’re citing was born in 1730. Why is it not possible that he is the son of Patrick Rice, when we know Patrick did have a son who was living in that time frame and his family had connections to that part of Pennsylvania?
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I’m really unsure. Often unsure why people online are satisfied with perpetuating obviously questionable information as fact. Granted, I have the benefit of Y DNA to work with.
I think ages ago you pointed out a good thought, which is the word “Jr.” Jr back then possibly being an actual younger male of the same name but not necessarily father-son relationship? One source seems to think John Rice “Sr’ has a will in Hampshire Count VA, but I’ve never been able to find it. (John Sr.mentions John in will in Deed Book 3, pg. 137, Hampshire County, Virginia)
I think it stems from that fact and the very earliest SW PA/NW VA records, where a John Rice, John Rice “Jr” and “John RIce III” show up together if my memory serves.
I will need to reevaluate all of the connections. My research tends to be chaotic at times, my hope is someone wants to spend a lot of time reading the comments on this blog and sees something I don’t.
All ultimately in the goal of tracing my Rice line as far back as I can with genetic genealogy.
However, my not at all close to definitive guess is at least Edmund RIce, son of Patrick had at least 2 sons John, and William, father of my 4X Grandfather Jonathan B Rice (1790 -1872), and possibly had another son named Basdel/Basdill.
All of the connections are difficult to suss out succinctly via text, or at all. But all of the names/places/biographical information and everything else I can find points to a situation like that. Unless there is raised-by-relatives quasi-adoptions I can’t suss out. The amount of shared first names in this family is incredibly difficult.
I may mentioned, but I have a couple of really interesting Rice surname Y DNA matches that could honestly point back to before Patrick Rice. All of my Rice’s Landing matches are 36, 37 out of 37/37 biomarkers. One relative of this supposed “John Rice Jrs” son, Jesse Rice, only has 25 biomarkers and that is a 25/25 match.
If we’re assuming the Y DNA all traces back to Patrick Rice, these other 2 Rice surname Y DNA matches are peculiar, because they are 2-3 steps genetically away by the same surname – but both of those end in brick walls about 1800 SW PA, and they aren’t any names I’ve ran into being connected.
Another Y DNA match that is more closely related to these two matches than I am, does not share the Rice last name. But they can trace their surnames direct Paternal line, and that person’s wife, back to being relative neighbors to an Aaron Rice in SW PA before 1800, which is curious.
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I share your bafflement at the willingness of some researchers posting material online to reach unfounded conclusions on the basis of tiny pieces of evidence or no evidence at all. Yes, Jr. meant, in old records, a male who was younger than another male living nearby who had the same name, but was not necessarily the father of Jr.
Your DNA matches sound fascinating. If those you seem to be matching a generation or two back beyond Patrick Rice knew more about where their Rice roots lie, this would be really important information.
Have you tried using the new all-text search tool at FamilySearch, to see if it points you to any information you have not yet found about your John Rice and other Rices living in the Pennsylvania “extension” of the Frederick County, Virginia, family?
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Whatever the case, I appreciate the depth of your research in general, but especially with to the Patrick Rice family. Wherever the answers lie I imagine it isn’t without genetic genealogy, that’s as close to fact as any of it is going to get. I imagine AI could eventually suss out the connections be a tremendous aide. Ancestry’s algorithm has already detected and summarized connections I wouldn’t have ever found myself.
I am singularly focused on this specific Y DNA surname lineage and picking away at that. Obviously you interests are much more in depth and varied, so I appreciate your entertaining this back-and-forth.
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I think it’s great that you’re using DNA matching as a tool to help you sort your “deep” Rice ancestry. It’s a great tool when used well. We each have our own pieces, and when we put them together, a bigger picture emerges. I’ll keep doing all I can to dig into the records of this family and help put together a bigger documented picture, and will hope to find some new information that may be useful to you.
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Hopefully this isn’t too jumbled but some peculiar connections I had kind of stumbled into definitely brings more questions but feel like its another step at getting me and everyone else closer to accurately naming these Rices.
Link:
This is a snip of a larger plat map for the land owners at the time and I’ve temporarily misplaced the full original. But It begs to the question whether those are 2 different John Rices for 1. And I may not understand how those things used to work, but if the patent was granted in 1786, even though it was in pursuant of a 1780 VA warrant, it certainly couldn’t be John Rice son of Patrick if he in fact died in 1785? And if it isn’t him then who is this John Rice or (Rices)
I’ve long suspected that Edmund son of Patrick could have been father to the man I’m looking for, William Rice my 5x Grandfather. I’ve theorized that William could have also had a brother named John or Jonathan based on some repeated connections, albeit maybe they are just a bit circumstantial.
Most of the people in the linked plat map show up in 1772 and 1773 Tax Lists. Particular focusing on Tyrone township, which includes my suspect Edmond Rice and Zachariah Connell wife Elizabeth daughter of Patrick. The next township over, is Springhill Township, current day Greene County but all of this would have been Bedford County at the time. Springhill township includes many of the neighbors to John Rice or Rices in this plat map (Teagardens, Swans, Murdock, Van Metres,Harrod)
There is a 1773 SW PA/NW VA Indictment that includes a John Rice, William Rice, Thomas Roach(next door neighbor on plat map and supposed BIL to John Rice of Rice’s Landing) Acquila Martin, “half-brother to John Rice” and other area neighbors on this plat map.
Link:
https://www.google.com/books/edition/Annals_of_Southwestern_Pennsylvania/DlAMAAAAYAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=%22William+Teagarden%22+and+%22William+Rice%22&pg=PA17&printsec=frontcover
I’ve never seen a William and Jonathan or John Rice together in these early tax lists but all I can find is a transcription which lists in the 1773 Tax List of Springhill township, with a bunch of other families and/or people that show up in the attached plat map snippet.
Rees Jonothan 3.6 Jonathan
Rees William 2.0
Link: https://www.pa-roots.com/bedford/taxlists/tl1773springhill.htm
What are the odds The 1773 indictment source includes a William and Jonathan Rice brought into court with neighbors to this plat map- With all these other multi-sourced people/families…. and then the 1773 tax list includes a William and Jonathan “Rees” but no William and John Rice?
Just more peculiar evidence that no one online has the Patrick Rice/John Rice ‘sr’ / John Rice ‘jr” situation figured out and it all most likely rests on the mis-assumption of “Jr” automatically meaning “son of” when it didn’t.
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Thank you for the update about what your valuable research on your Rice line is turning up. I haven’t really done enough to track the Rices in Pennsylvania to comment intelligently on what you’ve found, other than to say that I think you’re going about this in just the right way, trying to find links between neighboring landowners which point you back to where they came from and possible relationships with them. I notice in the plat map you included that there’s a reference to some of the land being surveyed under a Virginia certificate. I continue to think that if you can find those Virginia grant records for the land in Pennsylvania claimed by the Rices and interrelated families, you may find some very important information.
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